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	<title>Comments on: Do You Quote By Hourly Rate or Flat Fee?</title>
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	<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee</link>
	<description>Income-boosting resources for commercial writers</description>
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		<title>By: Freelance Rates &#8211; Part 2: Hourly vs Project : Lillie Ammann, Writer &#38; Editor</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-3647</link>
		<dc:creator>Freelance Rates &#8211; Part 2: Hourly vs Project : Lillie Ammann, Writer &#38; Editor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-3647</guid>
		<description>[...] Do You Quote by Hourly Rate or Flat Fee?, Peter Bowerman, The Well-Fed Writer Blog [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Do You Quote by Hourly Rate or Flat Fee?, Peter Bowerman, The Well-Fed Writer Blog [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1882</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1882</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve long since stopped providing clients my hourly rate.  I treat the services I provide like menu items .... and assign flat-fees to each.  Just like menu prices at a restaurant can increase, so too can my fees every year or two.  I&#039;ve been in my own PR consulting business for almost 20 years, and have found that clients can get envious or resentful of your hourly rates when they know them ... often saying &quot;you&#039;re overpaid&quot; or that &quot;you make more&quot; than they do! Then that leads to the uncomfortable how-I-justify-my-rates chat, involving revealing office expenses, taxes, insurances, supplies, etc.  None of their business.  When clients are that non-savvy (to put you in that position) they don&#039;t deserve to know your rates.  Just use your rates to come up with the flat-fees to charge clients. And keep those rate-amounts to yourself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve long since stopped providing clients my hourly rate.  I treat the services I provide like menu items &#8230;. and assign flat-fees to each.  Just like menu prices at a restaurant can increase, so too can my fees every year or two.  I&#8217;ve been in my own PR consulting business for almost 20 years, and have found that clients can get envious or resentful of your hourly rates when they know them &#8230; often saying &#8220;you&#8217;re overpaid&#8221; or that &#8220;you make more&#8221; than they do! Then that leads to the uncomfortable how-I-justify-my-rates chat, involving revealing office expenses, taxes, insurances, supplies, etc.  None of their business.  When clients are that non-savvy (to put you in that position) they don&#8217;t deserve to know your rates.  Just use your rates to come up with the flat-fees to charge clients. And keep those rate-amounts to yourself!</p>
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		<title>By: Leisa Good</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1229</link>
		<dc:creator>Leisa Good</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1229</guid>
		<description>I prefer a flat rate too unless the job is too &quot;piddly&quot;.  Then I take half upfront then half after the project is finished.  

Hourly rates can be a &quot;fright-fest&quot; unless you explain that because the project is so small that it is based on a cumulative total of hours involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I prefer a flat rate too unless the job is too &#8220;piddly&#8221;.  Then I take half upfront then half after the project is finished.  </p>
<p>Hourly rates can be a &#8220;fright-fest&#8221; unless you explain that because the project is so small that it is based on a cumulative total of hours involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonia Simone &#124; Remarkable Communication</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1158</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonia Simone &#124; Remarkable Communication</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1158</guid>
		<description>Peter, I have to thank you personally. Based on the advice you gave in Michael Stelzner&#039;s recent copywriting class, I quoted a flat fee based on the pricing guideline that was part of the workshop. The client felt the fee was completely reasonable. At the end of the day, I made about 4x as much on the project as I would have in the hourly rate days, and I might well have had more trouble closing the sale.

So thanks. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, I have to thank you personally. Based on the advice you gave in Michael Stelzner&#8217;s recent copywriting class, I quoted a flat fee based on the pricing guideline that was part of the workshop. The client felt the fee was completely reasonable. At the end of the day, I made about 4x as much on the project as I would have in the hourly rate days, and I might well have had more trouble closing the sale.</p>
<p>So thanks. <img src='http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Julie Bonn Heath</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1157</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Bonn Heath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1157</guid>
		<description>I charge flat rate plus a percent of sales generated from copywriting, if possible. If not possible, or if client balks at that, I charge a higher flat rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I charge flat rate plus a percent of sales generated from copywriting, if possible. If not possible, or if client balks at that, I charge a higher flat rate.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauri</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1154</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 21:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1154</guid>
		<description>I too learned long ago to avoid hourly rates whenever possible. Flat fees are the way for me! They give me more control over all aspects of the project. 

That said, coming up with a flat fee can be difficult. I do a lot of book writing, so I use a per word rate to generate a flat fee. If the project is going to require a ton of research, I add .10s of cents to my word rate, which I try not to let go below a certain amount to begin with. 

Of course, I *never* share my per word numbers with clients, because then they&#039;ll want the same per word rate imposed on projects that might need more research or interviewing time or whatever.

I actually had one client ask me once, &quot;How come you are charging more per word on this book than the last one we hired you for? Why are you raising rates on us?&quot; I assured them that I don&#039;t charge by the word, because in reality I don&#039;t. I just use per word rates as a way to find my own personal ballpark for what I should be charging for a flat fee - b/c since every project is so different, it can be hard to know what to charge!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too learned long ago to avoid hourly rates whenever possible. Flat fees are the way for me! They give me more control over all aspects of the project. </p>
<p>That said, coming up with a flat fee can be difficult. I do a lot of book writing, so I use a per word rate to generate a flat fee. If the project is going to require a ton of research, I add .10s of cents to my word rate, which I try not to let go below a certain amount to begin with. </p>
<p>Of course, I *never* share my per word numbers with clients, because then they&#8217;ll want the same per word rate imposed on projects that might need more research or interviewing time or whatever.</p>
<p>I actually had one client ask me once, &#8220;How come you are charging more per word on this book than the last one we hired you for? Why are you raising rates on us?&#8221; I assured them that I don&#8217;t charge by the word, because in reality I don&#8217;t. I just use per word rates as a way to find my own personal ballpark for what I should be charging for a flat fee &#8211; b/c since every project is so different, it can be hard to know what to charge!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Scully</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Scully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>Regarding Eileen&#039;s comment:

The owner of that business probably didn&#039;t consider that a self-employed writer doesn&#039;t get paid for every working hour.  I gather that for writers who work 35-40 hours/week, 15-20 &quot;production hours&quot; per week is typical -- 25 at most.

That business owner was probably thinking, &quot;Let&#039;s see... $70/hour times 40 hours/week [minimum] -- hey, that&#039;s $280,000/year! I&#039;m not getting THAT from my business!&quot;

Sounds like he needs a business development program before he needs a writer.

And even if a writer did charge $30/hour, and managed to get 2,000 billable hours in a year -- that&#039;s only $60K gross, before expenses and taxes.  And forget about having any leisure time.  Those are corporate attorney billing numbers -- and their salaries start in the six figures, with four weeks of vacation.

When it comes to &quot;hourly rate,&quot; it seems that clients either don&#039;t run the numbers at all, or they run them incorrectly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Eileen&#8217;s comment:</p>
<p>The owner of that business probably didn&#8217;t consider that a self-employed writer doesn&#8217;t get paid for every working hour.  I gather that for writers who work 35-40 hours/week, 15-20 &#8220;production hours&#8221; per week is typical &#8212; 25 at most.</p>
<p>That business owner was probably thinking, &#8220;Let&#8217;s see&#8230; $70/hour times 40 hours/week [minimum] &#8212; hey, that&#8217;s $280,000/year! I&#8217;m not getting THAT from my business!&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like he needs a business development program before he needs a writer.</p>
<p>And even if a writer did charge $30/hour, and managed to get 2,000 billable hours in a year &#8212; that&#8217;s only $60K gross, before expenses and taxes.  And forget about having any leisure time.  Those are corporate attorney billing numbers &#8212; and their salaries start in the six figures, with four weeks of vacation.</p>
<p>When it comes to &#8220;hourly rate,&#8221; it seems that clients either don&#8217;t run the numbers at all, or they run them incorrectly.</p>
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		<title>By: Eileen Coale</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1150</link>
		<dc:creator>Eileen Coale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1150</guid>
		<description>Great points all, and I&#039;ve lived all of them. I&#039;ve learned that if someone insists on knowing your hourly rate, they pretty much believe that $30/hour is a generous wage.  They sure aren&#039;t going to want to hear $125 and up. Early in my career, I let someone coax it out of me. My rate at the time was $70/hour, and the individual responded in a shocked tone, &quot;I&#039;m the owner of my business, and I don&#039;t make anywhere near that rate, so I don&#039;t think it&#039;s appropriate for me to pay you that much.&quot; And that was the end of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points all, and I&#8217;ve lived all of them. I&#8217;ve learned that if someone insists on knowing your hourly rate, they pretty much believe that $30/hour is a generous wage.  They sure aren&#8217;t going to want to hear $125 and up. Early in my career, I let someone coax it out of me. My rate at the time was $70/hour, and the individual responded in a shocked tone, &#8220;I&#8217;m the owner of my business, and I don&#8217;t make anywhere near that rate, so I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s appropriate for me to pay you that much.&#8221; And that was the end of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Strong</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1149</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Strong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1149</guid>
		<description>Hi Peter,

Two things: When asked about the flat rate, I always mention that I&#039;ve found my clients prefer to know their costs up front, rather than guess what it might cost based on my hourly rate. They always think: &quot;Yeah, I&#039;d prefer to know my costs up front too...&quot; I think people are conditioned to ask hourly rates, without actually thinking about what they really want to know: how much is this gonna cost me?

Second, the downside to flat rates is that if the project does balloon, you have to be on top of it. Give a flat rate for a set list of services, and make it clear that the quote would change if the project changes. If the client wants to add &quot;just one more web page&quot; to the project, ensure that they are clear this is not included in the original quote, and that you will adjust the bill accordingly.

I always readjust the quote up front, rather than tack it on at the end. This approach, I find, makes for less headaches at the end when you send them the final bill...!

~Graham</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Peter,</p>
<p>Two things: When asked about the flat rate, I always mention that I&#8217;ve found my clients prefer to know their costs up front, rather than guess what it might cost based on my hourly rate. They always think: &#8220;Yeah, I&#8217;d prefer to know my costs up front too&#8230;&#8221; I think people are conditioned to ask hourly rates, without actually thinking about what they really want to know: how much is this gonna cost me?</p>
<p>Second, the downside to flat rates is that if the project does balloon, you have to be on top of it. Give a flat rate for a set list of services, and make it clear that the quote would change if the project changes. If the client wants to add &#8220;just one more web page&#8221; to the project, ensure that they are clear this is not included in the original quote, and that you will adjust the bill accordingly.</p>
<p>I always readjust the quote up front, rather than tack it on at the end. This approach, I find, makes for less headaches at the end when you send them the final bill&#8230;!</p>
<p>~Graham</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/do-you-quote-by-hourly-or-flat-fee/comment-page-1#comment-1147</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wellfedwriter.com/blog/?p=34#comment-1147</guid>
		<description>Good topic and great input. I like Mike&#039;s explanation to a client who asked him to break down a flat fee, and the focus on Creating a Successful End Result. Again, all about the professionalism involved, not the hourly-worker thing. 

And Beth makes a good point about hourly rates: Quote an hourly rate, and you potentially give the client the power to tell you how you should be spending that time, and how much time should be spent on what, when, in fact, they don&#039;t know how the process works. Stick to flat rates and you stay in control of things... 

And Dave, GREAT point about asking clients what they pay for raw materials if they ask you for your hourly rate. That&#039;s roughly equivalent, and they should get the point.

So much of this underscores a fundamental truth about this business: tell clients how things work, and they&#039;re likely to follow. Give them the opportunity to &quot;direct traffic&quot; by telling them your hourly rate, and you give up some of your freedom. 

PB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good topic and great input. I like Mike&#8217;s explanation to a client who asked him to break down a flat fee, and the focus on Creating a Successful End Result. Again, all about the professionalism involved, not the hourly-worker thing. </p>
<p>And Beth makes a good point about hourly rates: Quote an hourly rate, and you potentially give the client the power to tell you how you should be spending that time, and how much time should be spent on what, when, in fact, they don&#8217;t know how the process works. Stick to flat rates and you stay in control of things&#8230; </p>
<p>And Dave, GREAT point about asking clients what they pay for raw materials if they ask you for your hourly rate. That&#8217;s roughly equivalent, and they should get the point.</p>
<p>So much of this underscores a fundamental truth about this business: tell clients how things work, and they&#8217;re likely to follow. Give them the opportunity to &#8220;direct traffic&#8221; by telling them your hourly rate, and you give up some of your freedom. </p>
<p>PB</p>
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